me for Prez 2012

Let the debates begin.

Moderators: Astarin ShadowPrince, Zahrim, Rhen

Postby Xanai » February 12th, 2008, 7:07 pm

Emigrate to China and see if you enjoy living there.
Be sure and tell them what you tell us while you live there. Espouse the illigitamacy of the Chinese government and we'll see if you are ABLE to return in 10 years.

The Chinese government isn't illegitimate, the people put the Socialists in charge and apparently like it that way. More importantly, I have some friends that are missionaries in China atm and they openly dislike the idea of Communism/Socialism - however they're not thrown out because China needs people to teach English to their 1+billion population.

Xanai, what you stated is so damned ignorant it's fucking amazing.

Yes, it's so stupid that some of the smartest people in the world had to come up with the idea... crazy people like Weber, Michels, Dye, Mosca, etc. who have so many letters and titles after their names that it would take a whole new post just to list them all.

You might not like the Iron Law of Oligarchy, but it's political truth cannot be denied.

Xanai
Xanai
I talk too much
 
Posts: 585
Joined: April 30th, 2006, 2:19 am

Postby Pressto » February 12th, 2008, 7:15 pm

Why is it then Pressto, that EVERY Sys Admin position, Network Admin position, Network Security position that I have seen on Career Builder, Monster, Craigslist, etc REQUIRES MCSE, CCNA, and often a degree as well (and note I'm not just looking in DFW I also have search agents set up for parts of Florida, Georgia, and several other areas in New England)? Granted, yes there are ways around that such as work help desk for a few months or years if you are "under qualified" and get promoted from within, granted if there are no applicants who meet those qualifications they MIGHT forward a "less qualified" individual to the hiring manager, but most companies I have worked with the first person you talk to is HR, who doesn't give a shit about what you know, only what paper you have.

Again we are talking to different animals here, HR and the technical people and departments. Tell you the truth we rarely hired anyone who just drop an app in through the HR department at most large companies I have worked for. Instead we normally did networking at technical local events and made contacts there that when we were looking for a person these are the people we put out feelers to. The other good people who wanted to get hired also knew how to research the company, figure out who was really in charge of the position and emailed resumes directly to this person to by pass HR to get in the door. .

Let me clarify for you 2 differences here.

One you are a student with no experience or contacts so you are going to generic spam everyone with resumes and hope your pieces of paper get you in the door pass HR. That is the only way you think you can get in the door with you trying to bypass the help desk experience time most look for and jump ahead. You are probably correct if you don't know others in the business or have a couple years experience

There are a few ways to get around this and get in the door the back way. Join your local computer organizations that have meetings in your area and make contacts to have a method to pass your resume directly to the manager and bypass the HR screening. The other way to go about this is like I said research the company and cold call to social engineer your way into contacting the person at the company who actually is hiring. Now the key here is you have to have some experience and know what the hell you are talking about and doing. If you don't then go back and get the experience you should have by doing the lower end jobs and working your way up.
Pressto Chango
Enchanter Beer God
Image

Magelo Profile
Pressto
Enchanter Beer God
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: April 17th, 2004, 5:26 pm
Location: Sacramento

Postby Wenceslas » February 12th, 2008, 11:28 pm

Dual hijacked thread!

GratZie Dire!

Xanai: Just because those people have letters, degrees, and such doesn't mean, imply, infer or confer any real knowledge that they are, in fact, right.
That means they have an opinion. It sure the fuck doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

They are, in fact, a minority and a damned ignorant one. They ain't learned nothing with all those degrees. It's fucking hard to teach wisdom and optimism. It's easy to tell everyone "It's FUCKED, don't bother no mo"
MOST people, that like to think, have the impression that we still have the best country on this planet and that whatever is broken can still be fixed. Call it Optimism.

If I wanted pessimism, I'd still be either a Catholic or change political parties. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Missionaries are, IMHO, hypocritical no-nothing busy-bodies who really have no knowledge about what they are doing but light the fires anyway because they "feel" it is the right thing to do without ANY regard for the societies they're too busy noticing that they are going to burn down "for the greater good".

They have NEVER done anyone any fucking good at all and have instead created more misery than any other nosy fuckin group on this planet not affiliated with the fuckin UN.
Wenceslas
MCP's buff pimp
 
Posts: 4267
Joined: April 14th, 2004, 11:37 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Postby Direblade » February 13th, 2008, 12:57 am

Pressto wrote:
Why is it then Pressto, that EVERY Sys Admin position, Network Admin position, Network Security position that I have seen on Career Builder, Monster, Craigslist, etc REQUIRES MCSE, CCNA, and often a degree as well (and note I'm not just looking in DFW I also have search agents set up for parts of Florida, Georgia, and several other areas in New England)? Granted, yes there are ways around that such as work help desk for a few months or years if you are "under qualified" and get promoted from within, granted if there are no applicants who meet those qualifications they MIGHT forward a "less qualified" individual to the hiring manager, but most companies I have worked with the first person you talk to is HR, who doesn't give a shit about what you know, only what paper you have.

Again we are talking to different animals here, HR and the technical people and departments. Tell you the truth we rarely hired anyone who just drop an app in through the HR department at most large companies I have worked for. Instead we normally did networking at technical local events and made contacts there that when we were looking for a person these are the people we put out feelers to. The other good people who wanted to get hired also knew how to research the company, figure out who was really in charge of the position and emailed resumes directly to this person to by pass HR to get in the door. .

Let me clarify for you 2 differences here.

One you are a student with no experience or contacts so you are going to generic spam everyone with resumes and hope your pieces of paper get you in the door pass HR. That is the only way you think you can get in the door with you trying to bypass the help desk experience time most look for and jump ahead. You are probably correct if you don't know others in the business or have a couple years experience

There are a few ways to get around this and get in the door the back way. Join your local computer organizations that have meetings in your area and make contacts to have a method to pass your resume directly to the manager and bypass the HR screening. The other way to go about this is like I said research the company and cold call to social engineer your way into contacting the person at the company who actually is hiring. Now the key here is you have to have some experience and know what the hell you are talking about and doing. If you don't then go back and get the experience you should have by doing the lower end jobs and working your way up.


No experience hmmm? what about the time I've spent working help desk at Verizon, and hopefully soon AT&T which is a entry level tech position? Granted I'd like better, but they get some basic experience on my resume while I finish my degree and will help pay for some of it.

What about best friend here in Ft Worth who IS a sys admin and worked his way up the same way I am doing now? He was a Sys Admin for Bombay for 5 years, and has now been with Coutrywide for a bit over a year and he can tell you NONE of the tech departments, other than help desk didn't have atleast certs or a degree or both, atleast at his locations, and since he was a HQ for Bombay that likely says a bit as far as atleast Bombay is concerned.
Image
79 SK, Leader of the Vendetta
Dire + Ry makes 3 -- maybe more
Direblade
I talk too much
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: November 2nd, 2005, 10:48 pm

Postby Pressto » February 13th, 2008, 2:21 pm

what about the time I've spent working help desk at Verizon, and hopefully soon AT&T which is a entry level tech position?

Answering phones about phone service is not a tech position, unless you were on the technical support side fixing the workstations those people use. Completely different animals.

I have been in the business over 20 years and was relating to your real world personal experience of how things really work in every organization I have been involved with. This was suppose to be helpful information to give you some ideas from someone with real world experience. You seem to have your own ideas and experience on how things works, so take the advise and experience of someone who has done this a while with a grain of salt then. Every situtation is different.

I will say again that you should join the local tech organizations specific to your field in your area to make contacts and you can learn a lot from them at the meetings.
Pressto Chango
Enchanter Beer God
Image

Magelo Profile
Pressto
Enchanter Beer God
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: April 17th, 2004, 5:26 pm
Location: Sacramento

Postby Direblade » February 13th, 2008, 2:37 pm

I am working on getting my membership in AITP, and help desk where you do trouble shooting, in this area, is generally considered the "foot in the door" tech position Pressto
Image
79 SK, Leader of the Vendetta
Dire + Ry makes 3 -- maybe more
Direblade
I talk too much
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: November 2nd, 2005, 10:48 pm

Postby Xanai » February 13th, 2008, 4:02 pm

Xanai: Just because those people have letters, degrees, and such doesn't mean, imply, infer or confer any real knowledge that they are, in fact, right.
That means they have an opinion. It sure the fuck doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

It does not mean you have to agree with them, but it certainly doesn't make their opinions "so damned ignorant it's fucking amazing." Considering they are the authorities on beauracracy and politics, not to mention the founders and leaders of a field (which, as far as I can tell, you have only nominal knowledge about) you should perhaps consider their opinion before shooting your mouth off and making charged statements.

They are, in fact, a minority and a damned ignorant one.

HORSE.

CRAP.

Max Weber is considered nearly divine in a couple subjects, political theory, sociology, Elitism, etc. There are people who disagree with him, but he's certainly not the "minority" or a "damned ignorant one." Give me the "majority" of people who are opposed to Weber's concepts?

Do you enjoy just shooting your mouth off?

They ain't learned nothing with all those degrees.

Except a ton more than you.

It's fucking hard to teach wisdom and optimism.

Um, they had both. Michels firmly believed in optimism, in fact he did a great deal to act on his optimistic beliefs. It doesn't change the fact that once you start concentrating power into the hands of a few you'll have more Caesar's and less Cincinnatus'.

Recognizing your ignorance is the first step of wisdom. Once you know what's going to happen when you concentrate power, then you can actually make "wise" decisions.

It's easy to tell everyone "It's FUCKED, don't bother no mo"

Michels became a fascist and supported Mussolini. More like "It's F**ked, join the fascists!" Because that's the way it works. Gee, I wonder if America has become more or less Fascist in the last 50 years...

Massive military buildup? Check.
Decreased personal privacy in the name of "safety"? Check.
Overriding national unity (war or terrorism much?)? Check.
Populism? Check.
Corpratism? Check.

Yeah, what a crazy bunch those guys were...

MOST people, that like to think, have the impression that we still have the best country on this planet and that whatever is broken can still be fixed. Call it Optimism.

Call it they're buring their head sand if they think the government can do any of it.

You're right, citizens can do it, not more concentrated power into the hands of fewer people. What we need to do is completely reorganize our political structure, from the top down.

If only we had a political candidate who would put the power back into the hands of the citizenry. Someone who would cut our military drastically, cull the IRS, wipe away the beauracracy of all the UnConstitutional offices created without a Constitutional mandate. Man, if only we had someone like that...

Missionaries are, IMHO, hypocritical no-nothing busy-bodies who really have no knowledge about what they are doing but light the fires anyway because they "feel" it is the right thing to do without ANY regard for the societies they're too busy noticing that they are going to burn down "for the greater good".

You're right, it's so much easier to live in your own country and talk about how the rest of the world should come into the 21st century then move your whole family to some hostile, backwater, Chinese village and actually get your hands dirty with the business of making a better world. I so wish we had more people BS'ing on message boards all day, then the world would magically get better!

They have NEVER done anyone any fucking good at all and have instead created more misery than any other nosy fuckin group on this planet not affiliated with the fuckin UN.

You're a fucking idiot.

Conversation over.

/ignore Wenceslas

Xanai
Xanai
I talk too much
 
Posts: 585
Joined: April 30th, 2006, 2:19 am

Postby Wenceslas » February 13th, 2008, 5:01 pm

We agree: you're a fucking idiot.

=-)
Wenceslas
MCP's buff pimp
 
Posts: 4267
Joined: April 14th, 2004, 11:37 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Postby heffling » February 13th, 2008, 5:39 pm

Xanai wrote:If only we had a political candidate who would put the power back into the hands of the citizenry. Someone who would cut our military drastically, cull the IRS, wipe away the beauracracy of all the UnConstitutional offices created without a Constitutional mandate. Man, if only we had someone like that...


Cut the military drastically, that way we lose our position as a world leader, and end up being much more under the influence of foreign powers.

Wipe away the beauracracy of all the unconstitutional offices created without a constitutional mandate? You mean, Congress shouldn't follow the constitution when it says "To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces" or "To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court". I fail to see how creating positions of government is unconstitutional.

So, are you throwing your anarchist hat into the ring?
Image
heffling
 
Posts: 218
Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 9:47 am
Location: Alexandria, LA

Previous

Return to Rhen's Politics, Religion and World Events Forum.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron