Now what, Obama?

Let the debates begin.

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Postby Wenceslas » March 18th, 2008, 10:19 pm

What's keeping poor people down is the fact that we've created a permanent underclass of citizens when we started giving people something for nothing. In fact, this keeps all people down. It holds back the producers, it props up the consumers - it strangles society.

Precisely.
It's what Welfare is all about - keeping a perma-classs of voters that keep voting for the continuance of sucking at the government's teat.

It's what Democrats craved and Obama's preacher and his beliefs - exemplify that very thought.
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Postby Xanai » March 18th, 2008, 10:20 pm

I don't think you would be quite so sanguine about categorizing them as simply "religious" beliefs that shouldn't even be considered in deciding whether to support a candidate,

All I was really arguing for was the clips that I heard on the interweb, in which he says something like "God damn america for killing innocent people" and on and on which, as far as I can tell, isn't a bad thing - God will damn people for all sorts of sins; one of which is killing innocent people. He also said crazy things like the "US lied about Pearl Harbor" which is really a half-truth. There is still debate in the historical community how much FDR knew and when he knew it about the Japanese attack on pearl harbor - however it sounds crazy, so people call him cray.
The stuff about AIDS being created to kill black-people *shrug* I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's crazy-talk - though I'm not sure.

Either way, most of the guys sermons seem to center on the Bible and his interpretation of it "Jesus was a "black" man."

Is he a race-baiter? I think so. Is that detestable? Yeah, I think so. Does that make Barak Obama a race-baiter? I don't know. I do feel more uncomfortable with him now though? Absolutely. Of course it's not like I was every going to vote for him in the first place. He's a step away from Lenin and I'm a step away from Ayn Rand.

You can continue to claim to argue that these are simply "religious" beliefs that should not in any way be a criterion for judging a political candidate...just don't be surprised when people take you for a crank.

I don't think I'm too concerned about being called crazy, 9 times out of 10 I stand on my own in the debates we get into here. For the liberals I'm too conservative and for the conservatives I'm too liberal / conservative (take your pick).

I'll continue to argue for a slower call for judgement when it comes to relgious matters, especially calls for the pastor to be ex-communicated from his own church or for Barak Obama to remove his membership from the Church. That's sounds too much like ancient Roman persecution for my tastes.

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Postby Xanai » March 18th, 2008, 10:21 pm

:D

Nic post Fosters :)

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Postby Xanai » March 18th, 2008, 10:22 pm

Precisely.
It's what Welfare is all about - keeping a perma-classs of voters that keep voting for the continuance of sucking at the government's teat.

It's what Democrats craved and Obama's preacher and his beliefs - exemplify that very thought.

Glad we could find something to agree on :)

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Postby Pressto » March 18th, 2008, 10:52 pm

So laugh if you want, but just be aware you stand outside the Orthodox community of Christianity.
The fact you keep throwing out extreme examples in some religions is proving my point, not the other way around. The fact that I am not a part of these churches or religions is my personal choice, just like it is Sen. Obama choice on the church he attends and beliefs he has.

The other problem with your whole argument is you keep throwing out lines from the bibles and saying look look see what it says. Quoting some lines does not prove or justify your point and you need to link to a REAL example of someone preaching what you say they are. So far to me your whole argument is based on how YOU are reading, preaching and interpreting these different religions and ideas, instead of showing examples of preachers who are preaching what you say they are.

Again as I said Rev. Wrights statements are not the real issue from me with Sen. Obama and his church, what the real issue for me is that I want to hear him address is if he believes in and endorses the "Black Value System" members of this church must endorse and practice, because that is where Rev. Wrights ideas and values come from.
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Postby Khaw » March 19th, 2008, 6:58 am

Fosters wrote:
They say it's the white man I should fear, but it's my own kind doing all the killing here

- Tupac

:lol:


Of all things from the song, Only God Can Judge Me. I've posted that line a few times on these boards LOL.

That line goes on to say "Can't lie no love for the other side, jealousy inside makes them wish I died."

Pop quiz, who is the other side?
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Postby Xanai » March 19th, 2008, 9:55 pm

The fact you keep throwing out extreme examples in some religions is proving my point, not the other way around.

The fact that you lack the basic tools to properly exegete the Bible is really proving my point. God didn't need the Israelites to kill the 7 kingdoms, he could have done it just as easily himself (with Plague or earthquakes or famine or any other "natural" way). The fact that he chose the Israelites to do it, means something. Just like the word Herem, or the Ban, means "to dedicate something totally to God... and then destroy it".

The fact that I am not a part of these churches or religions is my personal choice, just like it is Sen. Obama choice on the church he attends and beliefs he has.

The fact that you're not part of churches which back away from the the "toughest" (from a pluralistic perspective) says loads about why the Church is so screwed up in the first place.

The other problem with your whole argument is you keep throwing out lines from the bibles and saying look look see what it says. Quoting some lines does not prove or justify your point and you need to link to a REAL example of someone preaching what you say they are.

The fact that the Bible says "leave nothing alive that breathes" and you think it means something else is very sad.

So far to me your whole argument is based on how YOU are reading, preaching and interpreting these different religions and ideas, instead of showing examples of preachers who are preaching what you say they are.

Yes, I'm interpreting the Bible to say things "kill all the men, women and children... leave nothing alive" no wait the Bible is actually saying those things. Do you think there is some nice interpretation for verses calling for Genocide? Like "Well, God didn't really mean that - he really meant buy them ice cream and live and let live"

There have already been examples posted of Churches saying "crazy" things from society perspective and I've clearly pointed out that the Orthodox faith doesn't allow us to pick and choose verses - it doesn't allow us to stress some verses, interpret them in a positive light and then preach the Gospel-lite to others.

It really is a polemic on the state of the Faith, when people think that God should be / will be tolerate of everyone else; that pluarlism is something that God would find acceptable.

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Postby Xanai » March 19th, 2008, 9:56 pm

Pop quiz, who is the other side?

Biggie Smalls, ie the East Coast gangsta?

I got nothing really, I'm not a huge rap fan.

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Postby Wenceslas » March 20th, 2008, 2:49 am

Is it really a surprise to find that the Bible says similar things that the Koran (sp? whiofuckincares) says.
That is - kill those damned unbelievers.
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Postby Khaw » March 20th, 2008, 7:06 am

Xanai wrote:
Pop quiz, who is the other side?

Biggie Smalls, ie the East Coast gangsta?

I got nothing really, I'm not a huge rap fan.

Xanai


You would be correct, the East Side. :D
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Postby heffling » March 20th, 2008, 9:12 pm

Xanai wrote:
The fact you keep throwing out extreme examples in some religions is proving my point, not the other way around.

The fact that you lack the basic tools to properly exegete the Bible is really proving my point. God didn't need the Israelites to kill the 7 kingdoms, he could have done it just as easily himself (with Plague or earthquakes or famine or any other "natural" way). The fact that he chose the Israelites to do it, means something. Just like the word Herem, or the Ban, means "to dedicate something totally to God... and then destroy it".


So because the Bible says to commit Genocide, it's ok? How does this make you any different from the Muslim radicals?

I always thought the commandment was "Thou shalt not kill", not "Thou shalt not kill unless I, thy God, telleth thee to".
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Postby Xanai » March 21st, 2008, 12:55 am

So because the Bible says to commit Genocide, it's ok? How does this make you any different from the Muslim radicals?

On what level do you mean: any different from the Muslim radicals?

I always thought the commandment was "Thou shalt not kill", not "Thou shalt not kill unless I, thy God, telleth thee to".

#1) It's "murder", not "kill"
#2) Deut 7 is merely an exposition of the first commandment ("thou shall have no other God before me.") as such it's a continuance of the commandments not an addition.
#3) Apparently it's ok to kill bad people, because it's done over and over and over again in the Bible; sometimes God does the killing sometimes men do the killing. But there's a lot of bloodshed that's for sure.
#4) Humans don't define "good or bad", God does.

Apparently it is "though shalt not kill unless I, thy God, telleth thee to." Like when God told Abraham to take Isaac up to the mountain and stick a knife in his sons chest... which Abraham faithfully carried out (of course God granted Abraham a reprieve, but only because God knew that Abraham was actually going to do it).

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Postby Xanai » March 21st, 2008, 1:09 am

Now that I have successfully hijacked the thread, let's see if I can pull off a first and rehijack my hijacked thread...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/ ... guest.html

Is a transcript of where Rush rips Obama a new one, this time Rush uses Obama's own words concerning another "racist" ... Don Imus.

Here's what Obama said:

MSNBC, David Gregory says to Senator Obama, "I want to begin by asking you about Don Imus. You've condemned his remarks about the women's basketball team at Rutgers. So let me ask you pointedly, do you think Imus should be fired?"

OBAMA: I don't think MSNBC should be carrying the kinds of hateful remarks that Imus uttered the other day, and he has a track record of making those kinds of remarks. Look, I've got two daughters who are African-American, gorgeous, tall, and I hope at some point are interested enough in sports that they get athletic scholarships

Hateful remarks = "Them are some nappy headed ho's (laughter off mic)"
Not hateful remarks = "The government lied about creating the HIV virus to enact genocide against people of color (raucus cheers of approval)"

Isn't this kinda like comparing Seinfeld to Adolt Hitler? It's not like loads of people base their moral decisions around the opinion of Don Imus, the same cannot be said of Minister Wright...

[INTERVIEWER]: So [Imus] should be off the air, off MSNBC, and off CBS, off the air completely in your judgment?

OBAMA: Ultimately, you guys are going to have to make that view. He would not be working for me.

He wouldn't be working for you? Like Minister Wright was working for you? WTF?

Then he goes on to say:

[INTERVIEWER]: "Okay, final point here. You've been a guest on Imus' show to promote your books. Will you or would you be a guest on his show in the future?"

OBAMA: No, I would not. I was on there once, actually, after Democratic National Convention, spoke about my book briefly, that's been my only experience on the show, and he was fine when I was on that show. But I don't want to be an enabler or be encouraging in any way of the kind of programming that results in the unbelievably offensive statements that were made.

Err, you mean you don't want to enable Don Imus - but you do want to enable Pastor Wright? White people who crack a 2 second joke need to be thrown off the air, but Black people who rant about the white community (making AIDs, selling drugs, oppressing the colored community) are apparently "A"-ok. WTF?

Alright, America, this is your chance to wake up and realize what kind of snake you're getting into bed with. That's some scary stuff...

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Postby Xanai » March 21st, 2008, 1:14 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTGRL0OJWQ

Here's the Rev. Wright talking about all sorts of crazy things. Most importantly have he equates "Christianity" with "white America" and "culture" with "white culture."

Oh yeah, I wanted to add, Liberation Theology is basically Christian socialism and while the Catholic church has said that some portions of it are acceptable, it has been widely condemned as heretical. Here is what Cardinal Ratzinger, then head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote: "An analysis of the phenomenon of liberation theology reveals that it constitutes a fundamental threat to the faith of the Church."

As Cardinal he silenced a number of priests & Bishops. As Pope he's silenced a number of Cardinals. Liberation theology is marxism made religion; it is orthopraxy masquerading as orthodoxy. When a Reformed Protestant and the Pope agree on something, it's got to be true :)

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