Vaccinations Optional

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Vaccinations Optional

Postby Wenceslas » April 1st, 2008, 10:57 pm

The recent measles outbreak in San Diego—started by one child who imported the disease from Switzerland—reinforces the ongoing need to maintain high vaccination coverage, Dr. Jane Seward said at the winter meeting of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

The unvaccinated 7-year-old boy, who had rash onset 12 days after returning to the United States, infected at least 11 additional children ranging in age from 10 months to 9 years. Four were infected in the pediatrician's office that the child had visited the day before he was taken to a hospital emergency department for high fever and generalized rash. Another two cases were the boy's siblings, while five attended his school.

One infant was hospitalized for 2 days for dehydration, and another traveled by plane to Hawaii while infectious, necessitating “quite a response” by public health authorities in that state, Dr. Seward noted.

All cases were unvaccinated, including eight whose parents had claimed personal belief exemptions.

That last sentence leads me to think that people with this position oughta be free to have but certainly should not be free to spread diseases around. Put them on reservations.
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Postby Vincecross » April 2nd, 2008, 1:55 am

Don't be so quick the judge on that, While I disagree with not getting vaccination's there are studies that are showing a possible causal link between vaccination's and autism. I don't believe them yet but they have placed doubts in my mind to leave the possibility open for debate.
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Postby Wenceslas » April 2nd, 2008, 2:47 am

Ah, but autism's link to vaccines was the dread pirate Thimerisol.

Vaccines have been replacing that ingredient for decades now and today very few vaccines still contain thimerisol of any amount.

The most interesting thing about that is: Autism cases continued to rise DESPITE the decrease or complete elimination of thimerisol in vaccines. You would expect the rate of autism to drop as use of thimerisol dropped...but it hasn't.
That's ANOTHER thread. Read Me

The point being - measles vaccines don't have thimerisol - those people are refusing vaccinations because they "don't believe in them".
Fortunately - most parents DO and thus we were averted from a similar wipe that the original natives of this continent suffered from.

We could have wiped out polio from the face of the planet like we did smallpox but for a lack of initiative. Now it's back and we're facing another inoculation pogrom to get rid of it again.
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Postby Cuin » April 2nd, 2008, 8:56 am

All cases were unvaccinated, including eight whose parents had claimed personal belief exemptions.


Unless I'm misreading this, the only children infected were ones without vaccinations. If that's the case, why should anyone who was vaccinated give a flip? They're immune! As for the twelve who contracted the disease, it sounds like they got their immunizations the old-fashioned way, they earned it! :P
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Postby Zahrim » April 2nd, 2008, 7:13 pm

I had the MMR series, Polio and TB vaccinations as well as having the small pox vaccination because my mother insisted I get it even tho they stopped giving it out in the late 60's.

what are these newer vaccinations? what is thermolsol suposed to protect aginst. I used to get the flu and strep as a child but I don't get sick anymore. I have never had a flu shot, nor will I.
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Postby Wenceslas » April 3rd, 2008, 6:56 am

Thimeresol is a anti-bacterial agent.
Extremely effective.

It metabolizes to ethyl mercury which is NOT the same thing as the much deadlier methyl mercury. It's methyl mercury everyone is screaming "POISON" about and it's ethyl mercury that thimeresol i converted to.

File under the Department of Redundancy Department.

Not that I am saying ethyl mercury is not poisonous, but am saying that it is much less so.
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Postby Pressto » April 3rd, 2008, 10:17 am

I am one of the older fart so yes I have had all my vac and no I have had no bad effect from them. Tell you what I think is worse and that is the smog shit I see in the air that everyone breaths.
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Postby Auricas » April 3rd, 2008, 12:18 pm

Pressto wrote:I am one of the older fart so yes I have had all my vac and no I have had no bad effect from them. Tell you what I think is worse and that is the smog shit I see in the air that everyone breaths.

And you live in Sacramento! I live in Riverside, otherwise known as the Bowl o' Smog, and I long to breath the air in Sacramento again (I'm from there originally).

Back to the original topic though. I had one thought when I first read the original excerpt, but I was ashamed of it and didn't post. But ... and I know I might get some disapproving head shakes with this one ... but is this modern natural selection at work? I mean, come on. You don't "believe in" vaccinations? Really? Very well then, nature will strike down your children so that your genes are not carried on. Brutal, I know, but humans lack a lot of biological defense mechanisms found in other animals so we rely on our minds to create the tools by which we survive and hence dominate this planet. A vaccine is one such tool and by denying yourself its benefits you are opening yourself up to the possibility of being phased out.

I would like to know why one might not "believe in" vaccines. This, to me, is different from, "I don't like the possible biological consequences my child would be exposed to by a vaccine." This just screams ignorance to me (for one reason or another). Does anybody here not believe in vaccines? If not, why?
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Postby Graal » April 3rd, 2008, 6:53 pm

The problem is that some people who get the vaccinations don't actually get the immunity. So even though they did the right thing, they can still be screwed by those few free riders who aren't willing to get the vaccines for "religious" reasons. Having your child born with birth defects (or miscarried) because you got rubella from someone sure would suck.
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Postby Wenceslas » April 4th, 2008, 12:34 am

Good point.
As usual =-)
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Postby Erilyn Cureheart » April 4th, 2008, 2:09 am

Pressto wrote:I am one of the older fart so yes I have had all my vac and no I have had no bad effect from them. Tell you what I think is worse and that is the smog shit I see in the air that everyone breaths.


I lived in Merced and the smog there was starting to get bad also. Though, I am certain it wasn't as bad as Sac or Riverside. Over here in Arkansas... hehe "WTF is smog?!" I love it here. *GRIN!*

As for the vaccine stuff. Yes, my children are up to date with their shots. Yes, I believe it is necessary. I realize this because when I was in High school I was a volunteer at an elementary school. I went in this place without any up to date shots like TB and all that other crap. I reeeally think it's a good idea that the High schools make their volunteer students get their immunity shots when going into a place with a bunch of little kids. I had to learn the hard way.
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Postby Wenceslas » May 5th, 2008, 9:37 pm

Sunday, May 04, 2008
More and More People Going Without Vaccinations

This is not good. I've paid attention to the growing anti-vaccination fad, but now it's starting to hit home. My son and I go to lots of play dates and kid-friendly activities, so I meet lots of moms. I don't talk to everyone about vaccinations, but when the subject comes up, I'm shocked at how many people either don't plan to vaccinate their children or are planning on a "delayed vaccination schedule."

For many people, the issue is purely emotional. It doesn't matter that there is no solid science behind the vaccinations can cause autism hysteria. It doesn't matter that a resurgence of measles or polio or some other major disease would be an epic tragedy. The reasoning seems to go something like this: "I just can't risk my child getting autism." "But there's no evidence that vaccines cause autism." "Yes, but what if they do? If I had my child vaccinated, and she was later diagnosed with autism, I could never forgive myself."

Will these same parents be able to forgive themselves if their children die or are maimed for life by an easily preventable disease? Hopefully none of them will ever have to find out.


Because of Urban Myth, children will die.
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Postby Zahrim » May 6th, 2008, 4:40 am

The clock to the end of the world, December 20th 2012, is getting louder at each passing day.
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Postby Wenceslas » May 6th, 2008, 7:45 am

I heard that same ticking sound in 1980 - 1984 was a'comin' up.
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Postby Graal » May 9th, 2008, 3:48 am

What I find really sad about the "it's poison, you shouldn't have ANY exposure to poison" philosophy is that these same people have no problem eating literally orders of magnitude more mercury in their diets. IThey can easily get many times the amount of mercury in a single vaccine from a single meal. And what they are eating is methyl mercury.

Enjoy that tuna!

But it isn't about the science. It is about feelings. That's fine when you are focusing on what to do in a relationship, but when you try to drag that into a discussion regarding scientific fact...well, it gets ugly.
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Postby Wenceslas » May 9th, 2008, 6:18 am

By the way, I did post an earlier discussion about the difference in methyl and ethyl mercury.

Methyl being very deadly and ethyl not as much and it's to Ethyl Mercury that the dread pirate thimerisol oxidizes to.

Very similar to Methyl Alcohol and Ethyl Alcohol...

One is called Wood Alcohol and the other you know as Everclear. Make no mistake - drinking ethyl alcohol can kill you by poisoning though you'll be too drunk to know it. Just sitting in a wood chair that methyl alcohol was spilled on will kill you dead.
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